I don't know what to call this

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I don't know what to call this

Post by Alex Steiner on Sun Jan 16, 2011 11:49 am

Blatantly stolen, but giving the source would give the answer/s.

I will present an abbreviated scenario, based on one I read somewhere. It will include a question requiring a detailed answer, an explanation of sorts. You are permitted (expected) to ask yes/no questions, which will be answered truthfully in [some colour].

Let's begin.

A man and his wife are having dinner. They each have the same foods as the other, until they reach the apple. There is only one. The wife takes the apple, and cuts it in half, sharing one half with her husband. They finish their meal, drink their wine, and pack to leave. As they are leaving, the husband collapses, dead. How did this happen and why?

I'll probably edit this post with compiled answers as they accumulate, as well as answer with a post. First to answer "correctly" wins, but this is more of a team effort.


The wife ate her half of the apple.
The man died as a result of something he ate.
Neither the man nor woman are particularly famous or well known.
The apple was not the sole cause of death for the man.
The apple was ordinary when the man chose it.
The wine did not affect the man or woman in any significant way.
The couple had dinner in the park.
They arrived at the park at the same time (together).
The man died of poisoning.
It is a warm summer evening.
The woman was unsurprised when the man died.
The man has no known allergies.
There was a delay between the man choosing apple from the fruit merchant, and the man eating his half of it.
The woman did have access to poison.
The man did not expect to die.
The death of the man was premeditated by the woman.
The woman tampered with the food at some point.
Neither the man nor the woman consumed any species of herring.



Last edited by Alex Steiner on Wed Jan 26, 2011 8:54 am; edited 1 time in total


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Re: I don't know what to call this

Post by The King of Eggs on Sun Jan 16, 2011 4:06 pm

Did the wife eat her shared half?


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Re: I don't know what to call this

Post by Alex Steiner on Mon Jan 17, 2011 3:27 am

The wife ate her half of the apple.

Red = Truth

If you think you can infer truth from the red, make it blue. Emphasis on infer.


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Re: I don't know what to call this

Post by Darth Skywalkerbacca on Tue Jan 18, 2011 6:15 am

Ok My Guesses:

1. Natural causes
2. Allergies
3. Severe Alcoholism ruined his liver to the point that that one last drink of wine killed him
4. She hit him over the head with a shovel because he wouldn't eat his damned mushrooms

Also who the hell has an apple for dinner, and where exactly are they having dinner if they have to pack up and leave.
Also when you say they both had the same food as each other do you mean they both ate the same food as each other or they both had the same food but it is optional if they both eat it or not?

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Re: I don't know what to call this

Post by Supreme Overlord on Wed Jan 19, 2011 8:01 am

I believe these are 'lateral thinking puzzle' (as opposed to 'logical'). They are fun, but I haven't done them for ages.

If you think you can infer truth from the red, make it blue. Emphasis on infer.
What do you mean by this.

Did the man die as a result of something he ate?
Are either of the man or woman well known?

Just thinking out loud:
Apple? Eden?
Drink their wine ... Princess Bride?

These puzzles often rely on wordplay, but things like 'dinner', 'apple' and 'collapses' don't really have double meanings, do they?
I'll get back to this after someone (Alex) responds.


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Re: I don't know what to call this

Post by Alex Steiner on Wed Jan 19, 2011 8:08 am

The man died as a result of something he ate.
Neither the man nor woman are particularly famous or well known.


As for how to use blue:
Red says: Action A did not directly lead to result B
Blue says: Action A indirectly lead to result B

Similarly, one can logically compare several facts to show that something else must be true (under the rules of this system).

in·fer /inˈfər/
Verb: Deduce or conclude (information) from evidence and reasoning rather than from explicit statements.

Since Red cannot lie, the aim is to ask the right questions.


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Re: I don't know what to call this

Post by Supreme Overlord on Wed Jan 19, 2011 8:15 am

So if red said:
'Eating the apple had the same effect on both the man and the woman'
'Both the man and the woman ate the apple'
'The woman did not die'

I could post (in blue):
'The man did not die'

Is that the idea?


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Re: I don't know what to call this

Post by Alex Steiner on Wed Jan 19, 2011 8:18 am

Yep.

Now ask some stuff.

Look at what was said, and more importantly, what was not said.

I just remembered where I learned formal logic, so you might need to do some research to do it properly (or just ask me blindly and hope for the best Razz ).


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Re: I don't know what to call this

Post by Supreme Overlord on Wed Jan 19, 2011 8:23 am

Does eating the apple have the same effect on both the man and the woman?
Did the man die as the result of something he ate in that meal?
Is the woman still alive?


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Re: I don't know what to call this

Post by Alex Steiner on Wed Jan 19, 2011 8:25 am

Eating the apple had different effects on the man than on the woman.
The man died as a result of something he ate in that meal.
The woman is alive at the end of the "scenario" (past tense and all that).


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Re: I don't know what to call this

Post by Supreme Overlord on Wed Jan 19, 2011 8:40 am

Does this text count as blue?

Was the apple the sole cause of death for the man?
Was it an ordinary apple? (Curse me for not asking this sooner!)
Did the wine affect either the man or the woman?


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Re: I don't know what to call this

Post by Alex Steiner on Wed Jan 19, 2011 11:15 am

Red text: Mine, always truth.
Blue text: Use it for statements you infer to be true. I will then confirm or deny it.

Should we make another colour for the questions? See how much fluff we get in here.

The apple was not the sole cause of death for the man.
The apple was ordinary when the man chose it.
The wine did not affect the man or woman in any significant way.


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Re: I don't know what to call this

Post by Darth Skywalkerbacca on Thu Jan 20, 2011 1:33 am

Obviously it goes like this.

The puzzles gives us actions but not a time period over which those actions occured. Thet both ate the same meal but the husband left his meal sitting on the table for a week whereas the wife ate hers straight away leading the man to die from a severe case of food poisioning.

Ha Sherlock Holmes eat your heart out

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Re: I don't know what to call this

Post by Alex Steiner on Thu Jan 20, 2011 1:58 am

Darth Skywalkerbacca wrote:Obviously it goes like this.

The puzzles gives us actions but not a time period over which those actions occured. Thet both ate the same meal but the husband left his meal sitting on the table for a week whereas the wife ate hers straight away leading the man to die from a severe case of food poisioning.

Ha Sherlock Holmes eat your heart out
No, just no. Guessing gets you nowhere.

You can ask about time period Razz . You can even add that to your questions to be specific.


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Re: I don't know what to call this

Post by Reverse Simplicity on Thu Jan 20, 2011 1:41 pm

where is the location the couple are having dinner?
did the husband leave to 'place' before or after the woman?
Did the man die from being poisoned?
Is it cold outside?


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Re: I don't know what to call this

Post by Alex Steiner on Thu Jan 20, 2011 2:16 pm

The couple had dinner in the park (to watch the sunset/stars).
They arrived at the park at the same time (together).
The died of being poisoned.
It is a warm summer evening
(perfect for such an outing).

Name of the game?


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Re: I don't know what to call this

Post by Supreme Overlord on Fri Jan 21, 2011 2:01 am

Was the woman surprised that the man died?
Did any of the foods affect the woman differently to the man?
Was the man allergic to anything?

OK, let's try this:
'The apple was ordinary when the man chose it.'
The apple was not ordinary when the man ate it.


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Re: I don't know what to call this

Post by Alex Steiner on Fri Jan 21, 2011 2:32 am

The woman was unsurprised when the man died.(Though she acted so of course.)
Some foods affected the man differently to the woman.[/color] (More specific perhaps?)
The man has no known allergies, aside from a slight irritation caused by penicillin.
Supreme Overlord wrote:'The apple was ordinary when the man chose it.'
The apple was not ordinary when the man ate it.
Very good.


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Re: I don't know what to call this

Post by Supreme Overlord on Fri Jan 21, 2011 3:21 am

So that's a yes?

The woman killed the man.

Was there a delay between the man choosing the apple and eating it?
Does the woman have access to poison?


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Re: I don't know what to call this

Post by Alex Steiner on Fri Jan 21, 2011 6:19 am

Supreme Overlord wrote:The woman killed the man.
Correct

There was a delay between the man choosing apple from the fruit merchant, and the man eating his half of it.
The woman did have access to poison.


You don't have to be so circumspect Razz .


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Re: I don't know what to call this

Post by The King of Eggs on Sun Jan 23, 2011 6:40 pm

So its over? And the required inferance was.

The woman killed the man? Wth


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Re: I don't know what to call this

Post by Alex Steiner on Mon Jan 24, 2011 2:33 am

No, but the blue statement was correct.

Keep asking.


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Re: I don't know what to call this

Post by Darth Skywalkerbacca on Mon Jan 24, 2011 11:05 am

obviously the woman used a knife that had poison on one side but not the other so that when she cut the apple in half she took the side without poison on it.
Then when that didn't kill him she stabbed him with the knife as they were leaving the park.

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Re: I don't know what to call this

Post by The King of Eggs on Mon Jan 24, 2011 3:46 pm

Oh okay i get it.

Was the man expecting it?


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Re: I don't know what to call this

Post by Alex Steiner on Tue Jan 25, 2011 5:28 am

The King of Eggs wrote:Was the man expecting it?

Expecting what, exactly?

The man did not expect to die, if that's what you're asking.


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Re: I don't know what to call this

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