Ethics and Choice

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Re: Ethics and Choice

Post by Supreme Overlord on Thu Oct 11, 2012 5:09 am

First of all, upon analysis, Room 7 is a stupid option. If you're going to get lucky enough to have 5 empty chambers in a row, you've already got your $5 million; there's no point firing the last round.

Second of all, the entire game is a bit dumb. Looking at my fancy payoff matrix, you can see that the person's life has to be the equavilant of $5 million or lower to even consider playing. If you look at the far right 'Average' column (ie, if you don't care at all about the person you're killing; or alternatively if you're just playing with no one in the room), you'll see that the average payoff does increase as you fire more shots, but the rate decreases, so each shot you fire is improving your payout by a smaller amount.

I'm not sure if there are any more conclusions to be drawn from this. So long as you can assign a monetary value to the life of the person in the chair (what their value is to you, that is), you can use this handy dandy chart to decide which option to choose. Or if you're too lazy to interpret that, try this algorithm (?):

If you value them from $0 to $1 million, fire 5 shots for an average payout of $2.5 million to ~$1.7 million.
If you value them from $1 million to $2 million, fire 4 shots for an average payout of ~$1.7 million to $1 million.
If you value them from $2 million to $3 million, fire 3 shots for an average payout of $1 million to $0.5 million.
If you value them from $3 million to $4 million, fire 2 shots for an average payout of $1 million to ~$0.17 million.
If you value them from $4 million to $5 million, fire 1 shot for an average payout of ~$0.17 million to $0.
If you value them above $5 million, don't fire.

I find it interesting that, if you value the person a bit below $5 million (or alternatively, you chuck a bag of with <$5 million of your own money in the room), it's worth pulling the trigger just once. Although I guess it's not like you're earning a couple of bucks on average, really chances are you'll get a whole new $1 million.

Now the word 'million' looks weird.


Having said all that, I have to amend my answer for the 'random pulled off the street' to Room 6. Let the guy have a 1 in 6 chance at life.
As for my Canadian cousin Kasha, who lives a rather strict, somewhat Amish, Christian lifestyle - but she's still family dammit - I think I'd have to rank her as higher than $5 million.

It occurs to me that value can be measured (if crudely) by the amount of money you'd pay to heal someone (guarenteed) of a terminal illness. And similarly, for the crippling injury, how much would you pay to heal the wound (under normal circumstances). I can't say for sure, considering there are plenty of people who get on without use of their arms/legs/eyes/etc, but I would probably pay $5 million to restore my body from injury to its current state (or hey, fix my vision too while you're at it) if possible. So Room 1 for that option as well.


That's it; I'm done!


Never put off until tomorrow what you can avoid doing entirely.

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Re: Ethics and Choice

Post by The King of Eggs on Fri Oct 12, 2012 1:39 am

You're missing the whole "consequence" thing, room seven, I get 5 mil, one less witness.


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Re: Ethics and Choice

Post by Supreme Overlord on Fri Oct 12, 2012 1:54 am

The King of Eggs wrote:You're missing the whole "consequence" thing, room seven, I get 5 mil, one less witness.
An excellent point.


Never put off until tomorrow what you can avoid doing entirely.

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Re: Ethics and Choice

Post by Darth Skywalkerbacca on Wed Oct 17, 2012 7:40 am

ok what if I said you get 1 million for every shot fired that deosn't kill them but if you do kill them you lose everything?
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Re: Ethics and Choice

Post by Supreme Overlord on Wed Oct 17, 2012 7:47 am

I would need to rework my matrix. But really, it would equate to all the 'y-x' boxes being substituted with y=0, causing the breakeven price to rise and the average to fall. This is left as an exercise for the reader.

But since I already said open Room 1, offering further disincentives is not going to change my mind...


New question already.


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Re: Ethics and Choice

Post by Darth Skywalkerbacca on Wed Oct 17, 2012 7:50 am

lights flash, sirens blare, klaxons sound becuase with one vote for room one and one for room 7 all doors get locked and the facility floods with nuclear waste. okay I'm handing the reins over to overlord for a special ethics and choice.
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Re: Ethics and Choice

Post by Supreme Overlord on Wed Oct 17, 2012 7:58 am

CHOICE 39:

What Are You In The Dark?

As we know, the human race is using up energy in a highly unsustainable manner, and it's up to you to do something about it.

ROOM 1:

If you open Room 1, you will shut down all nuclear power plants forever. Never again will man mess with forces beyond his control.

ROOM 2:

If you open Room 2, you will shut down all plants powered by fossil fuels. The environment is sacred, dammit.


Never put off until tomorrow what you can avoid doing entirely.

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Re: Ethics and Choice

Post by The King of Eggs on Wed Oct 24, 2012 2:39 am

Room two, fossil fuels are so 90's


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Re: Ethics and Choice

Post by Supreme Overlord on Wed Oct 24, 2012 6:35 am

Lights flash, sirens start to blare but then cut off as all electricity to the facility is cut off. By choosing Room 2 you have darkened approximately 70% of the world. As food spoils, lights go out and computer systems crash, you can reast easy in the knowledge that the death of millions has brought you a bright, nuclear tomorrow!


Never put off until tomorrow what you can avoid doing entirely.

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Re: Ethics and Choice

Post by Supreme Overlord on Wed Oct 24, 2012 6:58 am

CHOICE 40:

Service Emergency

ROOM 1:

Inside Room 1 is a doctor who has developed a revolutionary new cancer treatment. The next two patients he is due to treat are a serial killer serving a life sentence, and a twelve-year-old-girl. If Room 1 is not opened, the doctor will be painlessly anesthetised and his organs will be harvested, but both the serial killer and the little girl are expected to die within the month.

ROOM 2:

Inside Room 2 is a police officer hot on the trail of a notorious gangster and drug dealer, who has recently been diagnosed with a heart defect and requires a transplant. If Room 2 is not opened, the police officer will die of heart failure, and the investigation into the drug dealer will be delayed long enough for the trail to go cold.


Never put off until tomorrow what you can avoid doing entirely.

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Re: Ethics and Choice

Post by Alex Steiner on Thu Oct 25, 2012 5:24 am

How revolutionary is this cancer treatment? Cancer is a very broad set of diseases.

On the surface I'm leaning towards room 1, since reusable cancer treatment is more important than a single gangster.

Assuming it is how I interpreted it, a "pretty damn likely" cure for "a pretty broad range of" cancer.


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Re: Ethics and Choice

Post by Supreme Overlord on Fri Oct 26, 2012 2:08 am

Let 'revolutionary' mean a couple percent more likely to be cured for all types of cancer (if that offends your knowledge of cancer's variety, let it be all relevant types of cancer); but it's not a perfect cure.


Never put off until tomorrow what you can avoid doing entirely.

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Re: Ethics and Choice

Post by Alex Steiner on Fri Oct 26, 2012 3:33 pm

So, room 1 doesn't guarantee the survival of either of the patients, and room 2 doesn't guarantee the capture of our gangster. Police officer who doesn't take notes? Scientist who doesn't take notes?

I'm going to open room 1 anyway. Despite everything else, our gangster is one man.


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Re: Ethics and Choice

Post by Supreme Overlord on Mon Oct 29, 2012 2:50 am

Alex Steiner wrote:So, room 1 doesn't guarantee the survival of either of the patients, and room 2 doesn't guarantee the capture of our gangster. Police officer who doesn't take notes? Scientist who doesn't take notes?
Welcome to Ethics and Choice under Overlord's control, where everything is murky and nothing is guarenteed.


Never put off until tomorrow what you can avoid doing entirely.

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Re: Ethics and Choice

Post by Supreme Overlord on Tue Oct 30, 2012 12:24 pm

Lights flash, sirens blare; as Room 1 is opened and Dr Craig Thomson is rushed to the hospital bedside of one Drake McGregor, convicted of 8 murders by stabbing. Meanwhile, Officer Steve Vance's heart gives out in Room 2 and he perished minutes later.

Within days, both Drake McGregor and little Sally Roberts, whose life dream is to become a Olympic swimmer, are on their way to a full recovery. 'Mad Dog' Christopher Price, drug kingpin and leader of the Brisbane underwold, has escaped without trace. Are you happy now?


I'll now hand back over to Darth. That took a lot out of me.


Never put off until tomorrow what you can avoid doing entirely.

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Re: Ethics and Choice

Post by Darth Skywalkerbacca on Fri Nov 02, 2012 5:51 am

I like the fact that you took the time to come up with names for the victims, also I like the fact that Alex and Eggs actually posted in Ethics and Choice it's basically just been Overlord and myself for the past 20 senarios.
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Re: Ethics and Choice

Post by Darth Skywalkerbacca on Fri Nov 02, 2012 6:01 am

CHOICE 41:

All The Answers

You are at uni and you have your final exams in the next few days, you are studying away when somebody comes up to you and offers you the optimal answers for subjects exams.

ROOM 1:

You open the door to Room 1 and you take the answers.

ROOM 2:

I’d rather fail than cheat, no thanks I don’t want the answers.

In honour of the fact we are currently partaking in our final exams for the year I thought that this would be fitting
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Re: Ethics and Choice

Post by Alex Steiner on Fri Nov 02, 2012 1:01 pm

Room 2, no question.


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Re: Ethics and Choice

Post by If I Could Rewind on Sun Nov 04, 2012 10:30 am

Room 1

PS: I'm really suspicious of this choice,so I figured I might as well take it.
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Re: Ethics and Choice

Post by The King of Eggs on Mon Nov 05, 2012 3:49 pm

Bahahahahahahahahahahaha

*breathes*

Hahahaahaha

Room 1


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Re: Ethics and Choice

Post by Alex Steiner on Tue Nov 06, 2012 10:37 am

Note that it never said you were unprepared or likely to fail.


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Re: Ethics and Choice

Post by Supreme Overlord on Wed Nov 07, 2012 3:47 am

Yeah, Room 2. I'm not unprepared or likely to fail. Even if it's not 'me'; look, the character here is studying diligently and will probably do okay. And can we trust this mysterious 'somebody'; this phantom? Who can guarentee that they are really the optimal answers? Or they could be a lecturer in disguise (or even not in disguise; there's no description).

As for the Room 2 conclusion. I think I would reather fail than cheat (and certainly fail rather than get caught for cheating); but I have to admit both ideas are rather alien and I can't really imagine them...


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Re: Ethics and Choice

Post by Darth Skywalkerbacca on Thu Nov 08, 2012 5:50 am

lights flash and sirens blare, then a blackhole appears and destroys the entire campus becuase that's what happens when you can't come to a majority desicion, luckly you didn't technically fail the test so good for you.
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Re: Ethics and Choice

Post by Darth Skywalkerbacca on Thu Nov 08, 2012 5:56 am

CHOICE 42:

The Meaning of Life, the Universe and Everything

Stephen Fry (good friend to Douglas Adams and reportedly the only person in existence that knows the answer to “Why 42?”) is dying, you are the only person their and he wants to tell you Why 42.

ROOM 1:

Open the door to Room 1 and Stephen Fry gives you the answer

ROOM 2:

Nah better to have some mystery in life
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Re: Ethics and Choice

Post by If I Could Rewind on Thu Nov 08, 2012 10:54 am

*looks at both doors* *tries to decide* *brain implodes* *IICR dies*
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Re: Ethics and Choice

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